Bain-Blog: Garbage and recycling

Monday, April 10, 2006

Garbage and recycling

***Update (05/02/06)***

1) I have taken the feedback form from my website off-line. I will provide each member of the council a copy of it in their May 5th council packet. Feel free to continue to comment here and/or contact individual council members.

2) I thank everyone who has taken the time to attend the town hall meeting; attend a council meeting; and read and submit comments here, on my website and via direct email and phone calls. I appreciate hearing from you!

***Update (04/28/06)***

1) Now online is the memo from City Manager Richard Wollangk in which he responds to the eleven questions I submitted to him.

2) Now online is the most recent Chapter 23 proposal. There is, however, another change being made to the Ordinance that is not reflected in the proposal found online. Staff has decided to remove the "continuous forward motion" requirement for the garbage/recycling trucks. This is a change from Tuesday's council meeting. It means that condo owners, and those apartment complexes that will receive service under the proposal, will receive service on their private roads, as long as a waiver is signed. I planned to bring forward an amendment to allow for service on private roads. I am happy that staff has made this change on their own after hearing the many concerns expressed over the past few weeks.

3) The online comment form will remain available until May 1st.

***Original Post***

One of the first orders of business the new common council will decide is who receives city-provided garbage and recycling services and how they receive it, all beginning in October of this year. Click here to read the proposed new Ordinance (Chapter 23).

The first reading and official public hearing for the proposed Ordinance change will be Tuesday, April 25th at 6:00 p.m. in the Council Chambers at City Hall. The council is scheduled to vote on it at its Tuesday, May 9th meeting - same time and location. Citizens will have the opportunity to address the council at both meetings.

In an effort to open up the process and collect additional information, I have organized a town hall meeting [related article] [related article] for Tuesday, April 18th at 6:00 p.m. in the Council Chambers at City Hall. All council members, the City Manager, Director of Public Works and Sanitation Director will be invited to attend. I encourage all citizens who would like to speak on or learn more about this issue to attend the meeting.

If you cannot attend any of the meetings, please contact the members of the Common Council to voice your opinion. I am also collecting questions and comments on my website and will share the information I receive with my fellow councilors prior to the May 9th council meeting.

I know this is a heated issue that has caused frustrations for many. It's my hope to facilitate as much discussion and gather as much information as possible prior to the final vote. I encourage you to let your voice be heard.

-Bryan

64 Comments:

As a small business and residential property owner in Oshkosh, I find it deplorable that this city is considering a fee for garbage collection. As a small business owner, this would be just one more hit that would have an adverse affect on my profitability and bottom line. It is easier for larger businesses to absorb fees like this because they have a much larger customer base to spread these costs onto. Some times I think the city wants small businesses to fail. As a residential property owner I would like to know how the city can justify a garbage collection fee when as reported in todays Northwestern, the city is still owed tens of thousands of delinquent tax dollars and somehow, the city is going to find the money needed to fight a legal battle over the Christmas Box Angel if necessary. What are the priorities here?

By Anonymous, at April 12, 2006 8:27 AM
I think your answer to the Garbage problem was given at http://www.fullofbologna.com in the thread about ways the City could save money!

By Anonymous, at April 12, 2006 10:02 AM
We need to continue to keep essential services on the tax roll rather than fee for them. What sense does it make to fee for garbage and then turn around and spend $250,000.00 on floating docks. And Pleeease do not make the point they come from different budgets, or it is a quality of life issue. Those arguments do not fly.

By Anonymous, at April 12, 2006 11:24 AM
Many good options have been proposed.
#1) Look into reducing recycling pick-ups.
#2) Challenge the way our current systems works which allows garbage men to speed through there route and only work a half day. Show in detail how this is "good" for the TAXPAYERS.
#3) Look into the wage and benefit structure of the entire City Staff. Don't allow City administrators to hide under the arbitration issue. Bus drivers with starting wages of $12.05 per hour make me believe we have DEEP problems with our entire compensation package.

By Anonymous, at April 12, 2006 12:14 PM
We need our common council to use their creative abilities, citizen input and strong backbones to come up with a solution to avoid this major "tax" increase. Many solutions have been offered from multiple sources.
Fees for basic services are unacceptable.

By Anonymous, at April 12, 2006 1:32 PM
I have written many times to people on the council about garbage collection. It seems that they don't read letters or don't care. I think that we have to start from the spending source.
1. Why is it necessary to have three guys on a garbage truck. There is always just one picking up the garbage, the other two inside the truck. I think we the public should take pictures of the wasted time and money we have going on here.
2. Why on a small one way or just on a street that is not that busy can't they just drive down the middle of the street and get garbage from both sides instead of turning around and go down the street the other way?
Just think of the money that could be saved if the fat could be cut from these services. There wouldn't be a need to charge a fee.
It seems that the council thinks that the money well will never go dry, well think again, things are getting tighter and tighter for all. Please us some common sense.

By Anonymous, at April 12, 2006 1:54 PM
As a condominium owner, I am opposed to the current proposal to have us take our garbage to the curbside. Due to the density of population in our area, the amount of garbage heaped at the curbside will be very unsightly. Who will be responsible for picking up the mess if animals or vandals get into it prior to the collection? Who will be responsible for the cleanup if the garbage men are careless in their collection (which does happen) and garbage is left curbside? Will the city be responsible for cleaning the terraces? Now if a mess is left, we clean up in front of our units...I don't think we should have to clean up the terraces which belong to the City...so will that be an extra cost to us as well?

Some of the things that the City has "found" money for are not needed or essential services. I agree with the others, do we really have money to pay the legal fees for the Christmas box Angel or for the new flating dock or to absorb the costs of a few large delinquent tax payers (who have retained their liquor licenses)?

Whay in the ordinance is garbage collection going to be still available to the trailer parks but not the condo's. I would venture to guess we pay more in taxes than the trailers do. Our roadways are not as narrow as some of the trailer parks. What about deadend streets? Are those home owners the next that will not get colection because the trucks can't "navigate" there either?

By Anonymous, at April 12, 2006 8:09 PM
I really believe that the garbage user fee is just a symptom of a much larger problem in our city government.

I watch council meetings and from time to time observe elected council members ask probing questions to city staff. From my position as a viewer, I am occasionally appalled by the condescending responses given.

Mr. Kinny, Mr. Patek, Mr. Stephany have been observed feeding pabulum to council members to appease them. TOUGH questions need defined concrete answers not flip politically crafted rhetoric.

Council members such as Bryan Bain are educated capable elected officials that should DEMAND city staff provide complete information. City staff should be held to a high level of accountability. The City Manager should be taken to task to insure his subordinates do not dismiss council members for asking questions.

We have a new council make-up soon to occur. I believe it’s time to shake up the administration and let them know that many citizens in Oshkosh are upset about the current path our City is taking.

#1 – We need to have a complete audit of all city department positions, Department heads as well as line employees.

#2 – We need to determine whether we are staffed at appropriate levels in each area.

#3 – We need to verify that our pay and benefit structure is within reasonable averages. We are not a city that can afford above average wages and benefits. Oshkosh is a modest conservative, blue collar community. We can not afford elite city services on the modest wages of the average Oshkosh resident.

#4 – The union arbitration issue must be addressed. We may need a professional negotiator if our current city negotiator is unable to be successful.

#5 – Private sector wages, benefits and jobs in general are on a decline. Oshkosh and the greater Fox Valley have been hit extremely hard these past few years. Manufacturing jobs, union and non-union are being eliminated at an astounding rate. I am sad to see this occurring, but city government needs to understand that as the private sector goes, so goes the public sector.

#6 – We need to change the way we approach our residential street improvements. I applaud the group of councilors that suggest that secondary residential streets be resurfaced using concrete curb and gutter, but asphalt is used as the driving surface. I believe as most of our older streets need costly sewer and utility replacement, using the concrete/asphalt approach is the only way we can accommodate more miles of street repairs on a timely basis.

#7 – We need to drive more retail growth in Oshkosh. Oshkosh continues to loose out retail opportunities to our neighbors to the north and south. I think that the current drivers attempting to secure new retail ventures in Oshkosh are clearly unsuccessful. We need to make a change. Let CHAMCO take the lead in an effort to attract retail AND manufacturing ventures for Oshkosh.

To summarize:

We need to keep general city services on the tax roll. Only highly unique services should have user fees. We need to address and most likely reduce city staffing, wages and benefits. We need to improve our streets. We need to attract jobs that provide family supporting wages. We need to drastically improve retail opportunities.

Thank you for your consideration.

By Anonymous, at April 13, 2006 7:41 AM
I agree with the sentiments expressed by the individual post of 4/12 at 0741. The "world" of Oshkosh is changing. Do we have capable city leadership in terms of current department heads, city manager and the city council who can conceptualize and operationalize a different mode of operation? The garbage fee is another in an ongoing series of conversations on fees(stormwater, fire protection via the water/sewer bill). In a world where there is a high likelihood of increasing inflation coupled with high energy prices, high legacy costs(debt service, wages, and benefits),a meddling state government,the status quo approach to city government and funding needs to change. It would be nice if the city manager and city council would lay out various funding/service level approaches v. an incremental, haphazard current approach.

By Anonymous, at April 13, 2006 8:51 AM
Trash removal should be part of the tax package because it is a basic and fundamental service. It should not become a user fee. The city should:

1) Identify the least essential items of the budget, which many of us thought was not done.

2) Make open to the public in-person and online forums to receive feedback. Regarding the latter, the city should have a feedback form easily accessible on its website where the mayor and council members are listed; and, it should be city policy that the mayor and every council member have email.

3) The city should seek feedback on how interested the city residents are in supporting fees to maintain those least essential items at current levels.

By Anonymous, at April 13, 2006 10:52 AM
In addition the looking at the entire sanitation department, I think the council should look very deeply into the transit department. There was a fairly eye-opening thread on another blog site recently that said the wages for bus drivers was $18.00 an hour. That was said to be the starting wage! That does not include any of the benefits that city employees also receive.

I don’t think that a city bus driver justifys a $18.00 an hour wage. It was also said that Oshkosh was either the highest or second highest pay rate for bus drivers in our region. How did we ever get to that point? Who is responsible for working that deal with the bus drivers union? They are obviously not doing there job!

Also speaking of the transit department. With gas and diesel going up everyday, why does Oshkosh have these HUGE busses? When I see them, they are mostly empty….NEVER close to being full. Why doesn’t Oshkosh by smaller busses? Small busses would use less fuel.

If the only reason Oshkosh has these mega busses is EAA, then that’s the wrong reason. Look into renting school busses for EAA week if that’s the case.

Some really tough investigation needs to happen in the bus division.

By Anonymous, at April 13, 2006 11:18 AM
In my opinion the garbage fee is OK for the one's who can afford it. I feel if a person, or family is on a limited income, and can document it to an official in city hall, the fee should be waived. An example of this would be a home owner, and or family, who are on a "low predetermined total income received", and that person can prove it to the city attorney, then a waiver of the garbage fee should be granted. This "predetermined total income can be established by a vote of the council and should be given favorable consideration.
Dewey Moore

By Anonymous, at April 13, 2006 8:31 PM
I live in a condo, and I pay taxes just like every home owner. So I find it very upsetting, that we are targeted not to have our garbage or recycling picked up.

Also why in the world would we need a floating dock that cost $250,000?

By Anonymous, at April 13, 2006 8:33 PM
I agree with the fact that Oshkosh spends way too much money on unnessecary items, for instance, the Christmas BoxAngel. If that woman wants to put it up, let her, it will be destroyed in a months time anyway if you put it in the park, as for the way the trash is collected, why three men on a truck? And why can't they do both side of non busy streets at once? And as for raises for city officials, I think they should not be alllowed to vote on them themselves, but a referendum or task force should do it. We are already losing business it seems by the day, how is hat progressive to our city? Shouldn't we be finding ways to keep them here as well as attracting new ones? There are may things that could be removed from the budget, try trimming the waste, I'd hate to think I need to have cash in hand if I need a police officer for help.

By Anonymous, at April 14, 2006 10:46 AM
There is no definition in the city code for condominiums. There should be a definition that reflects that a condominium is a residential property and directly taxed. It should not matter how many condominiums are in a building. The building size should have nothing to do with the fact that condominium owners are single family dwellings.

Condominiums that are in a structure of greater than four should NOT be considered as a multi-family dwelling.

The Condominium Act of Wisconsin states that no city shall enact an ordinance that puts a greater burden on condominium owners. Yes I know Mr. Kraft has said the law is about type of ownership and the city ordinance is about land usage – this is double talk. The intent of the state law is that condominium owners are protected from exactly what the city is proposing in their Chapter 23 ordinance.

We are residential. We should receive curb-side collection the same as any other residential property in the city. We are on a private road – this shouldn’t matter – the city planners approved this development.

Marilyn Anderson (4/15/06)

By Anonymous, at April 15, 2006 10:58 AM
I can’t understand how a budget could have been passed without knowing who would be included and excluded from garbage/recycling collection.

The shortage of $618,000 for the fourth quarter of 2006 was batted around and that is how the $10 tax/fee was proposed. Some questions you might ask…
• Did the $618,000 shortage include everyone who currently received garbage collection?
• Did it include the addition of recycling collection for condominiums greater than four?
• Did it consider new homes, condos, apartments that would be built and/or occupied by the fourth quarter?
I believe the council was rushed into voting on the budget before all issues were discussed. Yes at the time – you were under pressure BUT why.

When these major changes are on the horizon, why doesn’t the city work proactively to inform the council and the citizens of Oshkosh so input and knowledge can be sought. After the budget was passed, it was stated that the issue of garbage/recycling for condominiums would be looked at in January 2006. Well it was late March before anything came up again – and now you will be encouraged/pressured to make your decisions because October 1, 2006 is looming

Why would the city buy two of the old type garbage trucks? Yes I know Mr. Wollangk stated that two trucks needed replacement AND the new ones would be used. OK so two trucks needed to be replaced – did anyone ever consider buying trucks that can do garbage AND recyclables in one pick-up. That would have to cut fuel and personnel costs by at least a third.

Marilyn Anderson

By Anonymous, at April 15, 2006 11:13 AM
Someone asked why no one considered buying garbage trucks that could pick up both garbage and recyclables. This would make a lot of sense, I don't think that anyone involved in the city services has any common sense. Why can't those people take some suggestions that the taxpayers have, they're the ones footing the bills.

By Anonymous, at April 15, 2006 3:57 PM
In discussions with my neighbors, (other condominium owners) we are concerned that even with the town hall meeting, the majority of the City Council members have already made their decision. We are fearful that they will not even consider changing their positions on garbage & re-cycling and are not willing to hear us out.

Another issue we have discussed is that by charging citizens a fee, it removes it from our ability to use it as a deductable expense on our annual taxes. How fair is that?

By Anonymous, at April 15, 2006 7:09 PM
You may be right. I'm certain some council members go to meetings with there opinions set and minds made up...but WE still have to try!

WHAT CAN WE DO?

Call them, write them, e-mail them. If you truely believe in your position, you owe it to yourself to do whatever you can to make your point.

DO IT NOW...

E-mail address:
sbrabendermattox@ci.oshkosh.wi.us
ftower@ci.oshkosh.wi.us
btower@ci.oshkosh.wi.us
bbain@ci.oshkosh.wi.us
mscheuermann@ci.oshkosh.wi.us

Bill Castle and Paul Esslinger do not have e-mail, but you can call them

Bill Castle
(920) 426-7309
1125 Hazel Street
Oshkosh, WI 54901

Paul Esslinger
(920) 426-9750
2350 High Oak Drive
Oshkosh, WI 54902

By Anonymous, at April 15, 2006 10:28 PM
I have e-mailed the council members regarding the garbage issue. I have only received responses from two, Mr. Bain and Ms. Scheuermann. Both have been supportive of our concerns as condo owners. The others have not responded. I appreciate the that both Mr. Bain and Ms. Scheuermann have taken the time to respond.

I would hope that the others will attend the Town Hall meeting with the willingness to hear us out and respect our concerns.

By Anonymous, at April 16, 2006 1:53 PM
A follow up to one of the other comments...

The Angel in the park statue is not going to cost the city any money. From what I understand it is being paid for with private funds.

As for garbage fees, they need to be done away with and garbage collection needs to be on the tax rolls. Not only is garbage collection a basic service that our taxes should be providing, but if this is allowed to go into effect, I fear it wll be a slippery slope to more fees for essential, yet basic, services in the future as budgets become more tight.

Thank you for your consideration and for holding such a meeting.

By Anonymous, at April 17, 2006 10:35 PM
As a homeowner, I do not feel that a $10 per month fee is justified. When I see a street cleaner driving around late at night, every night cleaning the same streets over and over and over again that do not need cleaning, when I see the city spending money on water parks, when I hear of how much money in taxes has been uncollected, it all makes me cringe. If the city decides to charge separately for garbage collection, it should not be made mandatory. I would just as soon take my garbage to the landfill myself.

By Anonymous, at April 19, 2006 6:22 AM
"When I see a street cleaner driving around late at night, every night cleaning the same streets over and over and over again that do not need cleaning"....."bus drivers making $18.05 starting pay and driving huge empty busses"...

Don't tell me there are no areas for cuts to remain. All you here is if they cut they will cut the police and fire guys. I think there are tons of other areas that could be cut in this city that don't have a thing to do with fire and police.

City Council, get your act together and find those areas and make the cuts!

By Anonymous, at April 19, 2006 6:46 AM
I was driving down Westhaven Drive Monday and noticed that there were 3 men on the garbage truck. One was driving while the other two were goofing around throwing the garbage behind them or trying to get it into the truck from about 5 feet away. This is what we are going to have to pay a fee for. What is going to happen when the price for gas gets up to $4.00 a gallon, would the fee go up to $25.00? Lets cut out the funny business and cut the extra personal that should more than cover the $10.00 garbage fee.

By Anonymous, at April 19, 2006 5:57 PM
"... Lets cut out the funny business and cut the extra personal that should more than cover the $10.00 garbage fee."

CUT EXCESS MIDDLE MANAGERS AND HOURLY WORKERS!!

And YES..The City of Oshkosh has some.

By Anonymous, at April 19, 2006 9:30 PM
I think that the garbage fee will only be the start of more fees to come, let's nip this in the bud before it gets out of hand. One place I saw earlier this spring was watching four guys cleaning out the sewers. Three of them were working and the fourth was just standing there and watching. Now if the fourth one that was just watching would have his job eliminated there would be money for garbage collection. We have to many fat cats around, lets thin them out.

By Anonymous, at April 20, 2006 10:25 AM
I was just reading the comment above, why do they send out so many people to do one job. Are they afraid to lay people off. Most companies that I know don't make work for the employees, they lay them off if there isn't enough work to go around. Just think of the money saved.

By Anonymous, at April 20, 2006 10:56 AM
The problem often is that when challenged, Mr. Wollangk and Patik come up with lame union appeasing answers. Our council members need to apply more pressure. Council members are our ELECTED officials. The city manager is a city employee…he works for us and the council members, not the other way around!

The “Old” ways no longer work. Oshkosh residents and taxpayers are tired of the same old excuses, but yet have to foot the bill for $250,000.00 floating docks.

Time to “thin the herd” and get rid of some of our employees. I don’t believe for a minute that we can’t trim our city employee workforce by 10% and still maintain essential services.

Time to contact all of our council members and challenge them to take a firm approach when looking at the 2007 budget.

We need to downsize our city employees.

By Anonymous, at April 20, 2006 11:46 AM
Another classified ad in todays Northwestern for a City Employee. Some kind of truck driver position. Wage range is about $40,000.00 PLUS "Excellent" city benefits. Again, this is a way better starting wage than most any manufacturing job in this City.

This is another reason we should take our new city councilor Dennis McHugh's advise and put a freeze on highering any new employees.

By Anonymous, at April 23, 2006 9:59 AM
Hickory Lane is a street that has a patchwork of properties: some in the city, some in the town of Oshkosh. Could garbage pickup be coordinated? At present, the town garbage and recycling pickup is Tuesday, the city is Wednesday. As a result, 4 trucks lumber down the road every week. I'm assuming this would cause extra wear-and-tear on the road.

I was interested in the blog suggesting it might be possible to combine the recycling and garbage pickups with one truck doing both.

By Anonymous, at April 23, 2006 7:59 PM
I can't believe for the population of Oshkosh that there are only 31 comments on the garbage pickup. I would suppose many of the people as myself figure why comment, the city council has already made up their mind and will charge the fee no matter what comments are made. None of them ever listen to what the people who voted them in their position have to say. Everything is always cut and dried, we need to be heard.

By Anonymous, at April 24, 2006 9:31 AM
Here are some of the hourly wages paid to our City Employees.

I would venture to say that our 600 City Employees are some of the best paid workers in Oshkosh! Most high quality manufacturing jobs don’t pay this much for blue collar skilled labor.

I guess we should expect EXCELLENT service from our city workers….we certainly are paying them for it!

I would venture, given these hourly wages, there are areas that could be trimmed back a bit!

Oshkosh City Employee Union
Local 796 - AFSCME, AFL-CIO

Rates Effective Pay Period 1, 2006

Clerk Dispatcher - $15.79 - $16.66 per hour
Shop Laborer - $18.05 - $18.67 per hour
Transit Operator - $18.05 - $18.67 per hour
Service Technician - $18.05 - $18.67 per hour
Sanitation Operator - $18.42 - $19.15 per hour
Groundskeeper - $18.42 - $19.15 per hour
Zoo Specialist - $18.42 - $19.15 per hour
Traffic Painter - $18.42 - $19.15 per hour
Maint. Shop Worker - $18.42 - $19.15 per hour
Sewage Plant Maint Worker - $18.42 - $19.15 per hour
Street Maint Worker - $18.48 - $19.49 per hour
Parks Maint Worker - $18.48 - $19.49 per hour
Utility Operator - $18.99 - $19.65 per hour
Park Trades Tech - $18.99 - $19.65 per hour
Arborist - $18.99 - $19.65 per hour
Water Maint Worker II - $18.81 - $19.79 per hour
Park Maint Leadperson - $18.81 - $19.79 per hour
Traffic Painter II - $19.06 - $20.05 per hour
Water Meter Reader Service - $19.06 - $20.05 per hour
Equip Oper III - $19.06 - $20.05 per hour
Solids Plant Oper - $19.06 - $20.27 per hour
Parks Maint Tech - $19.06 - $20.27 per hour
Solids Plant Oper - $19.06 - $20.27 per hour
Sewerage Plant Oper - $19.48 - $20.66 per hour
Filtration Plant Oper - $19.48 - $20.66 per hour
Equip Mechanic - $19.48 - $20.91 per hour
Transit Mechanic - $19.48 - $20.91 per hour
Welder - $19.48 - $20.91 per hour
Lead Mechanic - $19.79 - $21.32 per hour
Mechanic III - $19.48 - $20.91 per hour
Electrician I - $20.97 - $22.34 per hour
Electrician Ii - $21.10 - $23.03 per hour

By Anonymous, at April 24, 2006 1:06 PM
Oshkosh City Employees - Benefits.

This is a list of SOME of the benefits we taxpayers are paying for. How many of you have jobs which have benefits this good?

Notice the medical benefit!!

Notice the SICK LEAVE benefit!!

Vacations:
1 year of service = 2 weeks vacation
7 years of service = 3 weeks vacation
12 years of service = 4 weeks vacation
20 years of service = 5 weeks vacation
25 years of service = 5 weeks + 1 day vacation

Sick Leave:
1 day of sick leave for each month of service.

Holidays:
12 paid days per year.

Medical Benefits:
Employee contributions for PPO

Effective January 1, 2006 employees will contribute 5% up to a maximum of $30 per month toward single; $45 per month towards dual and $55 per month towards a family premium equivalent.

Employee contributions for EPO

Effective January 1, 2006 employees will contribute 4% up to a maximum of $20 per month toward single; $40 per month towards dual and $50 per month towards a family premium equivalent.

Retirement Fund:
The Employer shall pay the employees mandatory contribution to the fund, up to 6.5% of the employee’s gross wage.

Longevity Plan:
The following longevity plan is in effect-

$2.77 bi weekly after 5 years of service
$5.54 bi weekly after 10 years of service
$9.23 bi weekly after 15 years of service
$12.92 bi weekly after 20 years of service

By Anonymous, at April 24, 2006 3:22 PM
why is it that some of you are against good paying jobs with good benefits? i don't understand it!! you're probably some of the same people who say we need more better paying jobs! sure, good wages and good benefits for you but not for the next guy. screw him and his family as long as you're taken care of, right. come on, do we really want everyone in this city making minimum wage and relying on welfare to make ends meet?????

By Anonymous, at April 24, 2006 6:57 PM
Another way to fund garbage pick-up rather than implement a "users" fee. Look at the sick days.

1 day for each month of service. That's 12 sick days per city
employee, per year. If we have 600 employees that's 7,200 days of
sick pay...people not doing their jobs.

7,200 days at 8 hours each day = 57,600 hours.

An average of 2,080 hours is a normal working year.

57,600 hour < 2,080 hours = 27.69

That figures to 27.69 full time positions. People getting paid by us taxpayers and not doing any jobs.

Tell me again that we can't find areas to cut other than police and fire
positions. Implement a garbage fee.

Renogotiate sick days maybe?!

By Anonymous, at April 24, 2006 9:38 PM
This sick leave response is a terrible example. These are days accumulated by city workers, not days used. To suggest that the city could cut 27 positions because of the sick leave agreement is rediculous. In reality, city workers use 1-2 sick days per person per year, the same as any other employee. The sick leave is accumulated in case of major illness or catastrophic injury, like cancer or a heart attack or major injury. To suggest we reduce this benefit is poor policy. Driving away quality employees because of a health condition is rediculous.

By Anonymous, at April 25, 2006 11:36 AM
Paragraphs taken from the union contract:

Unused sick leave credits shall accumulate to a maximum of 150 work days. Employees qualified to receive sick leave compensation shall receive such compensation at the rate of their regularly scheduled hour’s pay at the employee’s regular rate of pay for each day of absence.

Sick leave should be regarded by all supervisors and employees as valuable, free health and welfare insurance which, in the best interest of all employees, should not be used unless really needed. Sick leave is not a “right” like vacation: It is a privilege, to be used carefully.

Unused accumulated sick leave shall be paid to employees who die in service or retire under the Wisconsin Retirement Fund, at ½ the employee’s rate in effect at the time of he/she retires or dies.

By Anonymous, at April 25, 2006 11:46 AM
These comments are from ONE of the several union contracts the city has. I can tell you that paragraph is not in all contracts, as it most certainly is not in mine, and I am a city employee.

By Anonymous, at April 25, 2006 12:28 PM
Those paragraphs are in both the Oshkosh Clerical-Paraprofessional Union and Oshkosh City Employee Union contracts

Local 796, and 796-B
AFSCME, AFL-CIO

By Anonymous, at April 25, 2006 12:38 PM
So what kind of sick leave usage acrual and use policy do you have in your job in the private sector?

By Anonymous, at April 25, 2006 12:42 PM
2 days sick leave per year.

Use them or loose them. No hold over.

By Anonymous, at April 25, 2006 1:33 PM
2 per year? I don't believe you for a second! What happens if you get cancer and need radiation? What happens if you break your arm, or your ankle? If you sit behind a desk, not much of a problem, I guess. If you work as a police officer, or work as a plumber or electrician, or operate heavy machinery-- all city employee jobs-- you can't work if you're seriously ill or injured.

So fire these people? Rotten idea. So many of the city jobs require weeks and weeks of training to get the employees proficient and able to work on their own. If they use more than their "two" days, you fire them? You know how much money the city just lost because now they have to train someone else?

Lastly, if you have 2 sick days and you use them or lose them, I guarantee each employee, towards the end of the year, gets the sniffles or a sore throat that lasts, um..you guessed it! About 2 days! You can just add those days onto vacation totals every year. If they lose them, they're gonna use them.

But again, I don't believe you in your 2 days per year policy... except maybe for Wal Mart of Jiffy Lube...more of a job than a career....

By Anonymous, at April 25, 2006 2:21 PM
This is now the real world. I had a job I was downsized from. Found another job in the Fox Cities. Took it as there isn't much else avaiable these days.

Check the newspapers...lots of 30-50 year old people getting downsized these days. Maybe about 80 more postal workers if you read todays Northwestern.

I am stating a fact I work in the office of a manufacturing plant that employs 80 people.

We all get 2 sick days. If your out longer, you use vacation time or take it without pay. If extended, we have a short term disability policy that pays a maximum of $200.00 a week.

I have a friend that works at Oshkosh Truck. His wife is a school teacher here in Oshkosh. They use her health care insurance as it is a better policy than the one Oshkosh Truck offers. And Oshkosh Truck is the premire employer here in town.

Thats the real world.

By Anonymous, at April 25, 2006 3:09 PM
Looks like you should be one of the people applying for the city jobs that are open!

By Anonymous, at April 25, 2006 3:29 PM
"But again, I don't believe you in your 2 days per year policy... except maybe for Wal Mart of Jiffy Lube...more of a job than a career.... "

What the heck is this guy talking sbout. I have a "career" and I don't get 12 sick days a year. These city employes seem really pissed off that there little secret is out. Alotta my friends who dont work at walmart or jiffyLube dont get 12 sick days either.

This guys gotta get a reality check and see the real world out there.

By Anonymous, at April 25, 2006 3:30 PM
I know. Let's pay all of the city employees minimum wage and not provide any benefits. That will save the city tons of money.

City workers are not pissed about our "secret" being out. We're pissed because we work our assess off to make this city decent and all people do is complain. Look at the wages we earn--in the $30's per year for most of us...a decent wage for someone trying to raise a family, with a good benefit package and a nice retirement plan. There are thousands of people in this city making way more than we do, and we're not at all ashamed to be the true middle class.

By Anonymous, at April 25, 2006 5:15 PM
What happened to the original comments for the garbage fee. All of a sudden we have a chat room for some people to vent their frustrations. Lets get back to the issue at hand, garbage fee, we don't need it, leave it on the tax roll.

By Anonymous, at April 25, 2006 7:26 PM
"with a good benefit package and a nice retirement plan"...
well at least you know when you got it good dude.
Mid $30's is a great thing to begin with an like then paste on those benies that are listed and YA... you got a good benefit package. But like the real question is are all you guys really worth it? Im thinkin like that other dude said time to make some cuts!

By Anonymous, at April 25, 2006 9:25 PM
Ok...Heres the thing. I don't believe anyone in Oshkosh feels that hard working people should not be rewarded for their labor.
I think the major point that is attempting to be made is that life if full of changes.
At one time, when the economy was good and most of the citizens of Oshkosh were employed performing well paying jobs, everyone benefited.
Things change.
300 employees of Leach Company are out of work.
KC lays off 600 people and closes plants.
Glatfelter closes a plant and 200 at out of work.
The list goes on and on. So now the people that once earned a family supporting wage, along with a good benefit package are forced to find a service sector job because they are all in their 40's and 50's. I know, its a CRIME, but it's happening more every day.
So it becomes a trickle down effect. Now people have all they can do to put food on the table and pay the mortgage. Additional taxes and new users fees are putting huge pressure on many. So it now comes down to some city employees. Until now they have been maybe insulated a bit. We know they work hard, but now, economic conditions say that many in Oshkosh can't afford their services.
Its a tough pill to swallow. Many of my friends and co-workers have faced an uncertain life when your downsized. Please understand that many in Oshkosh appreciate you as city workers, its just that we can no longer afford you at the current wage and benefit rate you command.
Thanks.

By Anonymous, at April 25, 2006 9:48 PM
City employees didn't make out as great as everyone wants to believe we did in the 90s, when the economic boom was happening. We cruised at about 3% raises at the time, much less than what the private sector was paying.

Fast forward to today. Even tho we didn't reign in like others did 10 years ago, now it's OK to take away from us? You be the judge.

From the poster 2 up on the thread, who wants to make cuts: we're OK with that. The citizens just better be ready for the reduction of services. That's the consequence of cutting the positions.

By Anonymous, at April 25, 2006 9:52 PM
Some interesting news was reported this morning on WOSH 1490 AM.

A survey was conducted by the Commonwealth Foundation. The survey focused on moderate/middle income families. It was discovered that of those families surveyed, 41% did not have healthcare insurance provided by their employer...41%! It was reported that a similar survey was conducted 5 years ago and the figure at that time was 29%.

These are not the bottom of our society, these are families earning middleclass wages...yet their employers do not furnish healthcare insurance.

Now..lets review the healthcare plan provided to Oshkosh City employees...

Sick Leave:
1 day of sick leave for each month of service.

Medical Benefits:

Employee contributions for PPO
Effective January 1, 2006 employees will contribute 5% up to a maximum of $30 per month toward single; $45 per month towards dual and $55 per month towards a family premium equivalent.

Employee contributions for EPO
Effective January 1, 2006 employees will contribute 4% up to a maximum of $20 per month toward single; $40 per month towards dual and $50 per month towards a family premium equivalent.

Sounds pretty darn good huh?! A maximum out-of-pocket $55.00 a month for a family plan.

I'll bet that there are a bunch of people that would love to have that kind of coverage and would gladly work for much lower wages just to be covered by that plan!

By Anonymous, at April 26, 2006 7:07 AM
I agree with that person who wrote that this comment thing has gotten out of hand. Let's get back to the $10.00 garbage fee.

By Anonymous, at April 26, 2006 7:54 AM
Well I think some of this applies to the garbage fee discussion. Last night at the council meeting, most everyone who spoke was against the garbage fee…but the question is, if not the fee, then how do we cover the $600,000 shortfall in the budget. I guess some of the things posted about city workers wages and benefits is an effort to point out that there are ways to cut back, without just saying we will have to cut police and fire. Look at all those wages and look at all those benefits and if you really need to find some other ways to cover that garbage fee I bet you can find at least some of it in the area of city employee wages and benefits.

Corporate America is doing this right now. Not enough profits, the first thing you look at is your largest expense. Labor, Lets take a real hard look and see if cuts can be made to some of these wages and benefits and maybe not lay off city employees.

By Anonymous, at April 26, 2006 8:29 AM
well you can't cut back right now because the union contract is a 3 year contract 2004-2005-2006. But a new contract has to be nogotiated this year so that would be the time to maybe make some cuts to the wage and benefit area of the city employee budget.

By Anonymous, at April 26, 2006 10:01 AM
I agree with the other's who said let's get back to the issue at hand of garbage collection fees instead of bashing on the City employees. I am a former City employee and presently work for a County. I know that over the years, I have worked hard for the money I earn as do the majority of public employees. As with any employer, there are the slackers that people see and then lump all of us together with them. Most public sector employees work very hard and get very little credit for what they do have to do.

Let's be solution focused. With every budget, there are places to look at trimming costs. Perhaps the focus could again go to looking at things that are not necessary services such as police, fire and garbage. Again, perhaps the the City could look to another means of collection, such as the single operated trucks (with the automated arms), like the City of Ripon uses or perhaps recycling one time per month for all residents. As a condo owner, this is currently the level of pick up I have.

Perhaps a stiffer penalty on those people who delinquent on their taxes (like the larger businesses that owe).

Perhaps budget cuts into "training and conferences expenses" or any out of state travel or such things as periodicals and other miscellaneous supplies. I know that these are nickel and dime expenses but a nickel and a dime count these days.

By Anonymous, at April 26, 2006 4:23 PM
Re: The revised Chapter 23 with the newly revised changes.

Oshkosh is going to every extreme imaginable to discourage condo owners from opting into the fee based collection.

1. First revision restricted garbage collection for condos on private streets. We would have to opt in 100% and we would have to transport trash to a "Public right-of-way. For many the transport is 1-3 blocks. Most condo owners are elderly and many are disabled. The city heard our concerns and revised the revision.

2. Second revision now says condos on private streets can now have curbside collection, however; the requirement says the garbage trucks can only proceed in a forward motion. WHAT IS THE CITY THINKING? HOW STUPID DO THEY THINK WE ARE? That revision is no different than the first it is just worded differently . We will still be required to transport our garbage to the "Public right-of-way because the garbage trucks cannot continue only in a forward motion.

There are numerous city streets and courts with single family residences that are short streets with no outlet...just deadends!!!! The trucks will either have to back in or back out of those streets. Why are they any different? Why is Oshkosh singling out condos?

3. The first revision is eliminating all dumpster collection. My question to the city is: What about the city parks? They use dumpsters after large events are held there generating lots of garbage. I personally have seen the city backing up to the filled dumpsters. How is the city going to handle their dumsters?

This whole city garbage fiasco stinks to high heaven. Anyone paying property taxes should receive basic needed services such as garbage/recycling.

By Anonymous, at April 26, 2006 11:40 PM
I agree that some of the comments that have been posted have been unusually negative towards city employees. Those types of comments really are not needed, and are extremely counter-productive. Let’s focus on what types of city services we could reduce or eliminate in order to adjust the $600,000.00 that is needed to stop the implementation of the garbage fee. We still need to find the money. The fee will be enacted because of a budget shortfall. The garbage fee is the way city management proposed as a solution to get around their inability to raise taxes. None of us want our taxes raised, we don’t have enough money in our current budget to meet expenses...so what can we cut? The only good that the “city employee bashing” comments made were that generally labor is the highest expense of any business. So I think the original idea was to somehow reduce labor or benefits and apply those saved dollars to eliminate the garbage fee. I guess I would support that concept.

By Anonymous, at April 27, 2006 7:17 AM
You the city council members should be ashamed of yourselves. For any of you to continue to support the "Garbage Fee" is such an injustice to the citizens of Oshkosh. For you, $10.00 a month is nothing but to many of the public out here it is the cost of a prescription that we no longer will be able to take. Many of us are locked into our wages from 10 years ago and we are unable to receive any wage increase because you can only receive a raise if you are an outstanding employee. BUT then as NO employee is outstanding because there is always room for an individual to grow. So, THERE WE GO:
NO WAGE INCREASE,

NO COST OF LIVING RAISE (UNHEARD OF),

INSURANCE PREMIUMS SKY HIGH WITH 1/2 THE COVERAGE WE USED TO GET(LET'S HOPE WE DON'T NEED TO GO TO THE DOCTOR OR HOSPITAL),

PRESCIPTIONS( WE JUST SIMPLY CAN'T TAKE OUR MEDICINE ANYMORE),

HOUSE TAXES INCREASED GREATLY,

PUBLIC SERVICE BILLS INCREASED TERRIBLY,

GASOLINE PRICES(WE MAY NEED TO START TO RIDE BICYCLES TO WORK. YES, EVEN PEOPLE WITH ASTHMA),

401K ( HOW WE WISH, JUST CANNOT SPARE THE MONEY NEEDED TO RETIRE ON, WHAT A SHAME),

BUT LET'S ADD ON A NEW GARBAGE FEE. The public does not want this. Do you not have a clue! Start to listen to the citizens you claim to represent instead of doing whatever YOU want to do. The needs of the people should be met before you even start to think about the wants. People are leaving Oshkosh because of what you are doing as council, please WAKE UP Before it is to late!
P. S....You can bring in all the minimum wage jobs you can get into Oshkosh and we will all still be in the same boat. Poor and Poor and POORER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Please forward this onto Council members Dennis McHugh and Paul Esslinger as they do not have an email address listed here.

By Anonymous, at April 27, 2006 10:06 AM
I do not agree, as do many other taxpayers, with the transfer of garbage collection costs from real-estate tax revenues to a special monthly charge for garbage collection. I urge the council to revoke these charges quickly.

EVEN MORE DAMAGING is the arbitrary elimination of garbage collection service to private condominium streets. This afterthought attempt to reduce costs is a shock to condominium taxpayers and developers as well. They took the word of city officials when the condo developments were built. City specs were met and approved by city engineering and planning so that city services could be provided. (Fire, Garbage, Police)

It is interesting to note that the City Council is looking at ways to encourage business and industry to come to Oshkosh while at the same time they send this negative message of eliminating services to some taxpayers. This message is sent through Television and Newspaper,coverage of the garbage changes, as well as the network communications of retired members of the business and industry work force.

It may not seem like a big deal but I suggest that Businesses that may consider moving to or starting up in Oshkosh will say to themselves. "Can the city council members and managers handle long term planning? Will they backup their commitments to provide services to business and their workforce without changing or backing out after a couple years"?

Please think about this and continue to provide the garbage services to ALL taxpayers. I am sure there are ways to do this economically if you are resourceful and determined.

By Anonymous, at April 27, 2006 10:46 AM
The teachers union, the city and county employees unions need to understand the plight of the average Oshkosh resident. We are not living in Appleton. Is is obvious to everybody that Appleton is a upscale much wealthyer city compared to Oshkosh. Most people that own a house in our town only have lower middleclass jobs. We can't afford the taxes that pay out uppermiddle class wages AND unbelievable healthcare benefits that teachers and city&county workers enjoy. This really isn't class envey, its just economic reality. Oshkosh is a city of older, retired, fixed income,blue collar people. We can't live like Appleton because we don't have the younger, up scale, well educated residents and homeowners that they do.

so.STOP THE INSANITY and face the facts that some of these people working as teachers and public sector employees are gonna have to take a cut in pay and benefits to keep Oshkosh from going under.

My parents live on social security and thats all. No big retirement benefits..but they worked hard all there lives. Just average blue collar jobs, but they had to worry about just feeding, clothing and putting a roof over our heads. They cant afford to live in this city anymore. All the taxes and fees and ever expanding wage and benefits from the teachers union and city union and county union are pushing them out of there house to the degree I dont know what to do anymore.

Like I said ...stop the insanity.

By Anonymous, at April 27, 2006 12:36 PM
Why does our city buy those really large buses? When I see them, I've been taking notice that even with gas prices really high, they're mostly empty. Sometimes I see people sitting in the back of the bus, but I think well over 3/4 of the bus is always empty.

I think the only time I ever see full buses driving around town is during EAA week. But if thats the reason we buy the big size bus, its not a good enough reason to drive empty buses for the other 51 weeks a year!!

I'm thinking that those really large buses have to cost more than a smaller bus, and I'll bet they use way more fuel too.

I'd suggest when we need to replace them we should get much smaller buses.

By Anonymous, at April 28, 2006 8:56 PM
I am very pleased to see some movement with the proposed ordinance (regarding condominium pickup) after reading Mr. Wollangk's response to Mr. Bain's memo. I will reserve final judgement on it until I see the changes in Chapter 23.

I am hopeful that the Council will however look at voting down the $10.00 a month fee for garbage collection and continue to look at other money saving efforts. Many of the City residents are o fixed incomes (Social Security). Their costs continue to rise but not at the level that their benefit goes up annually. The cost of Medicare premiums has been steadily on the rise as well as the co-pays on medications. Medicare D has continued to be a problem to Seniors and the disabled.

The $10.00 a month fee may not seem alot to some, but my husband's social security benefit went up in 2005 to $703.00 per month from $687.00 in 2004. He saw only a $16.00 increase. His medication co-pays have eaten up his increase as has the rising cost of gas and utilities. To add another fee on top of those costs for many, will force them to give up critical things such as health care/medications.

At least when the cost of garbage collection was in the tax bill we were able to use it as a tax deduction.

By Anonymous, at April 29, 2006 12:19 PM
whoops, I meant to say that my husbands benefits were 683.00 in 2005 and $703.00 in 2006 (sorry about the confusion on years)

By Anonymous, at April 29, 2006 12:22 PM
A lot of these ideas are good ones like the person who wrote about buying smaller buss next time we have to but I think after looking at the money and benefits that are posted that next time we make a contract with all the city workers that we have to go for less money and beneifts or maybe we have to lay some people off it they dont. there is now way that I and alot of the people I know can keep on paying more taxes to make the city employess have better benefits and make more money. I can bearly get by right now and I got 3 kids in school. so thats what I think I hope you listen even though Im just a regular guy and not a company president or any of those special intersest groups Thank you.

By Anonymous, at April 30, 2006 12:13 PM

Bain-Blog

Monday, April 10, 2006

Garbage and recycling

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